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As it isn't your fault I would lawyer up IF the cost will be recouped, if not, I don't see a good reason to unless you just want to make a point and have expendable money. Water in fuel isn't a new thing and sucks but shouldn't do that to you engine. I only really fill up at 1 place (a Shell near my house) so if anything happens I can track down where the problem came from fairly easily. Even with that said though it will probably be an uphill battle for you, just depends on how much you really want to interrupt your life over a $3700 bill. You shouldn't have to pay it absolutely, but what will the other costs be of pursuing this?
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
As it isn't your fault I would lawyer up IF the cost will be recouped, if not, I don't see a good reason to unless you just want to make a point and have expendable money. Water in fuel isn't a new thing and sucks but shouldn't do that to you engine. I only really fill up at 1 place (a Shell near my house) so if anything happens I can track down where the problem came from fairly easily. Even with that said though it will probably be an uphill battle for you, just depends on how much you really want to interrupt your life over a $3700 bill. You shouldn't have to pay it absolutely, but what will the other costs be of pursuing this?
Thanks for the reply.

Yes, what is the risk/reward for going after them on this ? They will, I'm sure, say; "if you put bad fuel in the car, you can't hold us accountable if it breaks". While true in a perfect world, this is not reality. Many folks get a tank of "bad" gas and they don't have to tear apart their engines. I think the basic GDI design is a fault, but KIA does not seem to want to admit that.

E.T.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
A few updated to the continuing saga.

The fuel testing is in and it confirmed water in the fuel, which was expected. So much for the diesel theory and the notion of the stupid customer (me) putting in the wrong fuel. Also, the machine shop informed that they did not find any issues with the heads before the the machining work commenced. They continued the work only because of the instructions from the dealer.

So, it looks like whatever was on the valves was gone by the time the heads arrived at the machine shop and the heads were probably remanufactured for nothing.

Go figure.

EchoTango.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
I have now completed the write-up for a potential Small Claims Court action.

Putting the whole sad story on paper has helped in focusing in on the key points of contention with KIA. Interestingly the case has moved from warranty claim denial to technical ineptitude on the part of KIA. My contention is KIA was not able to diagnose the problem and disassembled the engine on a "snipe hunt" in an attempt to identify the problem and given the symptoms of the problem, should have suspected fuel as a possible issue. At least ruled it out as a possible source. This would have precluded an engine tear down had they simply took a fuel sample from the vehicle.

During the whole event, I got the distinct impression that they really didn't have a clue what was wrong with the car and were clearly distracted by finding ways to deny the warranty claim, rather than diagnosing the problem. You have to remember, this is a major international vehicle designer and manufacturer who should have been able to share the problem symptoms with the company technical experts, instead of flailing around with the local dealer.

In anycase, I will be making a decision whether to proceed or not, now that I have all the documentation completed. I would appreciate any thoughts and opinions regarding this matter.

E.T.
 

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You're in a unique situation of getting this all to fall into your lap. You could walk away, and just take it, or stick it to them for the matter of principle. I for one hope you go through with it. Kia is a great name brand, but issues like this need to be exposed so that they realize the flaw in policy and correct it for future customers. I hope at very least you break even, if not come out with some legal expenses and suffering in your pocket.


How much are you out of pocket for this fiasco?
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 · (Edited)
You're in a unique situation of getting this all to fall into your lap. You could walk away, and just take it, or stick it to them for the matter of principle. I for one hope you go through with it. Kia is a great name brand, but issues like this need to be exposed so that they realize the flaw in policy and correct it for future customers. I hope at very least you break even, if not come out with some legal expenses and suffering in your pocket.


How much are you out of pocket for this fiasco?
Thanks Max.

About $4K for the engine work :mad: Plus the resale devaluation and potential costs from loss of the KIA warranty.


E.T.
 

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I would continue with it and seek those damages as well. For the price of the devaluation, the time spent without the car and the inconvenience of being stuck in a a car that wasn't your size/class, and the rental vehicle too if you had to pay for it at all. Their negligence and oversight led to this, what should have been a fairly easy problem to diagnose. In the computer world we are trained to go after the most common/least invasive things first. I know people hate it but "Did you restart your computer?" actually solves a LOT of problems. I would love to see you go for it, but it isn't my money. Personally, you have a decent case, but I'm not a lawyer so that doesn't carry much weight.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Today I served KIA Canada with a Small Claims Complaint and registered the service with the Court. So, the matter is now in process.

I feel really sad that I had to do this as I think KIA could have avoided all this by simply being considerate and more customer service aware. I have over 30 pages of supporting documentation, even a University paper on the effects of water in fuel. So, I now wait for KIA to file their response.

I fully expect this to go to court and I've been reviewing the many episodes of "Rumpole of the Bailey" in preparation.
 

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Lots of good luck wishes; and a good job of documenting such as you've done should impress the claims court judge. I bet KIA makes good; especially if you have 'tipped' off your local consumer protection group or news station.

Well done!
 

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If I was Kia I wouldn't want the bad press and now they possibly lost a long term customer in you and others you know. Stuff like this is really bad for business.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Since it has been some time since my last post, I thought I would provide an general process update without breaching any legal obligations.

I have served KIA with a Small Claims Action and they have responded with a defense. We now will move to a settlement conference, now scheduled for early May. I suspect KIA will want to limit their participation in the settlement conference and will want to go swiftly to a trial. One new piece of collateral news is the massive recall by KIA for engine failures. While my case deals with the top end and the recall deals with lower end failures, it still shows the vehicles are susceptible to major engine issues.

Hopefully, the Judge involved will see the relative merits of my case and not be influenced by the size and economic clout KIA Inc has worldwide.


ET
 

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If you have an attorney, ask him to get the maximum news coverage about the case.
Write to Edmunds, motor trend, car and driver, any other magazines who have reviewed the car
Most cars will just sputter or shut off with water in the gas.
Make sure you check with your attorney, But I'd send a copy of every letter I send to the
magazines and reviewing companies to KIA.
The more bad news coverage you can get against them, the quicker they might be to deal.
 

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E.T.

Anything further on this? Really curious about the proceedings and outcome...if one has been reached yet.
 

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As it isn't your fault I would lawyer up IF the cost will be recouped, if not, I don't see a good reason to unless you just want to make a point and have expendable money. Water in fuel isn't a new thing and sucks but shouldn't do that to you engine. I only really fill up at 1 place (a Shell near my house) so if anything happens I can track down where the problem came from fairly easily. Even with that said though it will probably be an uphill battle for you, just depends on how much you really want to interrupt your life over a $3700 bill. You shouldn't have to pay it absolutely, but what will the other costs be of pursuing this?
 

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I do believe as you do that the GDI engines have all been effected.I have a Kia Cadenza 2014 and when leaving work my check engine light came on flashing out of the blue then white smoke started coming out of the back tail pipe.I had the car towed to a Mechanic Shop not Kia and they told me it was showing a misfire in cylinder 2 and that the engine would probably need replaced because of the engine being GDI .I think you will find that if you look up Cadenzas with engine problems in Canada they have Lawsuits started now with the Cadenzas because of the GDI engines.
 
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