[EchoTango]

Well, here's a car owners work nightmare.

On November 5th, my 2014 Cadenza stalled in the middle of the road and wouldn't restart. I had the car towed to a KIA dealership as the car is still under warranty. Expecting to get my car back the next day, I was informed that the reason for the stall was the engine had lost compression in several front cylinders and would need a tear-down (at my cost) for several weeks to determine the cause of the failure and that no loaner car was possible under the circumstances. He also mentioned that the warranty would only apply if a manufacturing defect was clearly present. You might imagine my shock at this turn of events was palpable and using all my self control, I requested the car to be towed to another dealership as I simply didn't believe this fantastic story. After a much more reasonable discussion with a different KIA manager, I was informed that loss compression was indeed the cause and that the engine would need a tear-down but that KIA would cover this as a goodwill gesture. Further they also agreed to provide a loaner car at their cost, all of which I really appreciated, giving the nightmarish situation I was in.

To make a long story short, KIA spent several weeks tearing down the top end of the engine while at the same time proposing several theories as the the cause, they finally hit of what they believe is the route cause....bad fuel. The KIA manager called me and went on the say that since this was not KIA's fault, no warranty coverage would be in effect and that I would need to pay to replace the engine loosely estimated to be $20K. At the dealership I was shown a reused water bottle containing two distinct substances, one I assume is fuel and the other clearly something else (water?). So, in effect, I am expected to largely purchase the vehicle once again.

I talked to a third party engine rebuilder and he was adamant that water or any other clear liquid (no particulates) should only stop the car and not damage the engine. He went on the say that water in gas today is quite common and most manufactures cover any results of this, but that engine damage is quite unusual, if even possible.

Anyone else has any experiences like this and any advice with resolving this with KIA ?


EchoTango :cry

(P.S. - I have posted this on another KIA site and apologies if there are any members from that other site here as well)

 

[Yooshaw]

Wow, sorry to hear about your problem. Kind of shocking that any Kia dealership would say the only way to honor the warranty is because of a manufacturing defect? What if no cause could be determined?


Not sure on what water in the fuel could cause or not cause. I thought water in the engine could cause hydro-lock? Any thought of engaging with the last place you got gas? If indeed it was water in the fuel that caused this, the gas station should be held liable for providing bad gas. Either way (pursuing through Kia or the gas station), I think a lawyer is in order.


Yikes, so sorry for your nightmare situation.

 

[EchoTango]

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I've considered that.

However, the fuel supplier will want substantial proof and even then, I will have to launch a lawsuit to even get their attention. However, I still think the Cadenza engine should not have imploded with bad gas and KIA should stand behind their product.


EchoTango.

 

[Yooshaw]

Just doing a quick search, seems that at most water in the tank will cause problems to the fuel system (pump, injectors), and not the engine itself. How about getting an independent shop to analyze the engine? Have you tried contacting Kia directly?

 

[EchoTango]

Just doing a quick search, seems that at most water in the tank will cause problems to the fuel system (pump, injectors), and not the engine itself. How about getting an independent shop to analyze the engine? Have you tried contacting Kia directly?

The bad fuel diagnosis was delivered by KIA at the end of last week and I'm still deciding what to do. I've also asked KIA to reconsider their "no coverage" position.

I've contacted an engine repair shop which supports your assertion.

It goes on.


EchoTango

 

[Yooshaw]

Best of luck, keep us updated.

 

[gene]

TV news help

Contact an attorney But first
Not sure what TV stations, there, might have a help segment of the news,
But if there is one contact them. We have two stations here who would
put your story on the evening news and then contact KIA for you.
These companies hate nothing more than bad publicity about their
warranties.
We see, here, all the time where the TV help sections can help with this
type of screw the purchasers.

The bad fuel diagnosis was delivered by KIA at the end of last week and I'm still deciding what to do. I've also asked KIA to reconsider their "no coverage" position.

I've contacted an engine repair shop which supports your assertion.

It goes on.


EchoTango

 

[EchoTango]

Thanks gene for your kind advice.

Waiting to hear back from KIA after my request to reconsider their last position. I also think they're confirming if they will need to change out the blocks and at the same time having the heads checked. We know the valves are fouled which explains the low compression, but if the cylinder bores show scraping, we're into a block and a very different discussion.

I'll keep everyone posted.


EchoTango.

 

[MadMax]

Yeah, that's horsesh!t...I'd destroy Kia and the dealership over this one. Local news, Lawyer, they'd owe me big for that one. $20k for a new motor, WTF are they kidding! Water in the motor used to be how old carb engines were cleaned out. dump a few ounces of water in the carb, and the boiling water in the cylinder would blow off carbon deposits...Never heard of water mixed in fuel fouling valves to the point of lost compression...again horsesh!t in my opinion.

 

[MadMax]

You should also tell us the dealership, so if anyone used them for service, they can voice concern of their unethical bait and switch of warrantee work. Then let the dealership know you've made this point very clear on various Kia forums, spreading the word about how bad they are trying to F- you.

 

[EchoTango]

You should also tell us the dealership, so if anyone used them for service, they can voice concern of their unethical bait and switch of warrantee work. Then let the dealership know you've made this point very clear on various Kia forums, spreading the word about how bad they are trying to F- you.

As of now, KIA Canada is driving the bus on this situation and I'm dealing directly with them. The dealer is carrying out the directions given to them and at this point is not the problem. As I learn more about water in fuel, I'm seeing how common this situation actually is and that it is virtually impossible to damage the engine from this type of contamination.

I'm waiting for the dealer to complete an inspection/repair of the heads and then I've asked them to reassemble the engine to see if the compression issue is resolved. If yes, other than a fuel system flush, I will be requesting they start it up and see if anything further happens. I'm not sure if they're going to agree with all of this and who pays, but at this point it's a waiting game. Clearly more cost effective than simply changing the engine, especially if I'm paying.

I agree with some of the other posters advice regarding media and lawyers etc., but I am reserving those items for the "nuclear option" should the situation turn ugly.


Thanks for your thoughts on this matter.

echotango

 

[MadMax]

Another nuclear option you could consider, this may fall under a Comprehensive claim with your insurance company. Great part there, your insurance company is stacked with lawyers and case law with regards to this. The way I would present it to insurance is, look, if Kia stands behind their claim, then I will be forced to file a claim, and this is an expensive, likely total loss event. The insurance company would then be compelled to fight kia, as a good faith response, since they will likely have to accept your claim.

To give you an slight example, my mother got a flat, ironically in a kia, and road on it for 2 miles, the front tire stripped away the plastic wheel skirt, and pulled down a thick wire harness, severing many crucial connections. I suggested she file it as a comprehensive claim, since it wasn't technically a collision, and the insurance paid to fix everything. over $5000 for a flat tire, and it was covered. Now in the case of Kia, once they have a large insurance carrier coming at them with, **** you have got to be kidding me this is in FACT a warrantee claim...I think they will opt out of the long fight. Best part, while this is going on your insurance will likely cover a rental.

 

[EchoTango]

Thanks Max :

Unfortunately, I had a fender bender a year ago with the car and if I put through another claim my insurance costs would be truly frightening.

EchoTango

 

[EchoTango]

Well, I have now received the final official verdict for KIA on my Cadenza engine failure and.....no warranty coverage.

I have spent many hours talking to KIA both to the dealership service manager and the area service manager and the net of all that discussion is they have stopped funding all work and will no longer cover the rental car costs as of last Tuesday. They also contend they are being overly generous by not clawing back the investigation and rental costs to date and feel KIA is not responsible for any portion of this situation due to the discovery of fuel contamination. So in short, they have pulled the plug on any further financial participation in the resolution and I will receive a rather large invoice from the dealership to put the engine back together.

The engine from my car is literally all over the dealership shop floor and my poor car is outside covered in snow, looking quote forlorn and abandoned.

Today (which I got the distinct feeling was the final call with the area service manager), we discussed what warranty coverage would be extended after the engine is repaired. It will end up being a kind of complicated adjudication process for each future warranty claim by reviewing what has now failed and if it could be attributed to the bad fuel event. If it can, then we will look at the repair invoice to see it the affected part was replaced and if not, then no warranty. I was expecting the warranty coverage would be an "all or nothing" proposition but it seems that KIA is willing to have this complex arbitration process in place.....just for me. The unfortunate aspect of this approach is that should anything happen to the engine, changes are good I will be on my own for the repair costs. On the positive side, KIA will continue to cover the rest of the car as long as it doesn't touch anything deemed previously affected. On the same call, I also asked him the help out with the parts costs and he quite sharply declined, indicating he had already gone over his approved funding.

I'm feeling rather disappointed in KIA, that while they did cover the investigation and rental car costs to date, they abruptly abandoned me once they found the bad fuel. They fully understood I'm a victim and did not intentionally put whatever is in the tank and that it came from either the gas pump or someone playing a cruel prank. I think some additional goodwill was needed as the costs will be between $2K-$5K, depending on what we find damaged on re-assembly, all paid for by a customer who has no choice. Also, any future value of the car is completely wiped out.

I hope this thread will help other who get into a similar situation in the future and can use this as a yardstick for their own experience. I also think this is a good read of any potential buyer who wants to get a feel for how they will be treated as a future Cadenza owner.

I'm not sure KIA is quite ready to play in the high end luxury car market.

EchoTango.

 

[gene]

You may wish to write a review of the KIA service and submit it to a few ratings sites.
Put review on a flash drive or save to a file on computer. Just copy to each rating site
Some like Edmunds, autoweek, autoguide, caranddriver, motortrend, consumerreports,
Kelly Blue Book, jdpowers, and usnews.rankingsandreviews.
just for getting the truth out.

 

[EchoTango]

Thanks gene.

All good thoughts.

 

[funnyman7915]

what was the final outcome did u pay for a new rebuilt engine? contact a lawyer or both ?

 

[EchoTango]

I met with the local dealer Service Manager and the Technician last Wednesday to agree on how the repair of the engine will be undertaken. Given the number of unknowns, we agreed to move forward, but with certain tests performed at specific points which will enable the next activity to occur. For example, if the heads come back from refurbishment, installed but then a compression test indicates the low compression still persists, then the engine will be deemed as scrap and in all probability a used engine will be installed. Estimates are around $2K for the repair or $4K for the used engine.

The repair work involved will be largely equivalent to a "valve job" plus injector testing and a fuel system flush, all of which are more or less standard maintenance services, only NOT for a car with 26K (16.2K miles) on the clock. I just called the dealership to get an update as we agreed on all this last Wednesday and I hope the heads are back from the machine shop and the injectors have been tested. This will mean the engine can be reassembled and run.

I also received a sample of the fuel and I was hoping to get it analysed but am have a challenge to find a lab that does this kind of work. Most of the facilities I have found are geared towards large corporations and not consumers. I am 99% convinced the contaminant is water and if true, makes the whole situation more troubling. Water is just a "normal" problem of fuel handling and does this demonstrate the 3.3 GDI overly sensitive to water ingestion ? Does KIA test this as part of their QA ? Why would water ingestion cause the valves to stick open ?

Of course, until I can absolutely confirm the contaminate is water all of this is pure speculation. Anyone know of a lab in Toronto that will test substances and provide results ?


EchoTango.

 

[sh30469]

Wow, this is crazy. Why the **** do we have a warranty on our engine if they don't cover anything on it unless they screwed it up from the factory? I thought they had to cover pretty much everything as long as you didn't mod the engine yourself. **** I think even bolt-on parts are not allowed to be denied by warranty work (in the states at least) unless they can PROVE that it is absolutely the cause of the trouble. I would've contacted a proper auto lawyer already, this is ridiculous.

 

[EchoTango]

Well, I finally got my car back, with a $3,700 bill.

I'm still in a state of shock and really don't know what I will do next. The fuel sample is currently being tested by a lab and I'm expecting the results at any moment which will determine what the contaminate was and will largely determine the source. The dealership is still adamant that diesel was the cause, due to my being asleep when refueling and "accidently" picking the wrong fuel. Of course, the pump nozzle is too large to fit in the fuel filler hole, but that doesn't seem to deter KIA from making this claim.

I'm expecting the fuel testing will confirm water as the culprit but, I still believe they will still maintain no warranty as the fuel was still compromised.....goodwill be dammed.

Do I get a lawyer and sue ?

EchoTango